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    Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

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    Ccron10
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    Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Ccron10 on Mon May 30, 2011 12:59 pm

    Screamscape:
    (5/30/11) In a bit of a surprise, it seems Hersheypark struck a deal with Six Flags Magic Mountain to buy up the parks old Monorail Trains, which are said to be quiet similar to the one in use at Hersheypark. According to the report from TheCoasterGuy, the park will likely rehab two of the old trains for use at Hersheypark, and gut the third one for spare parts, which will give the park four complete trains to run for the future. Could an expansion of the monorail also be in the works down the line? You never know…
    It's interesting that there have been rumors floating around about this happening for years and now it happens. Should be fun to see where it goes from here.

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  PSUPrincess22 on Mon May 30, 2011 1:24 pm

    Ccron10 wrote:Screamscape:
    (5/30/11) In a bit of a surprise, it seems Hersheypark struck a deal with Six Flags Magic Mountain to buy up the parks old Monorail Trains, which are said to be quiet similar to the one in use at Hersheypark. According to the report from TheCoasterGuy, the park will likely rehab two of the old trains for use at Hersheypark, and gut the third one for spare parts, which will give the park four complete trains to run for the future. Could an expansion of the monorail also be in the works down the line? You never know…
    It's interesting that there have been rumors floating around about this happening for years and now it happens. Should be fun to see where it goes from here.

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    I saw these being delievered on a flat bed truck a few weeks ago!! I knew I wasnt crazy I really did see a yellow monorail!!!
    Wonder what they're gonna do with them...??
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  HPCrazy on Mon May 30, 2011 1:36 pm

    I've been wanting this to happen forever now! Looks like we'll be seeing the monorail sticking around for quite some time now. It would be nice if this would result in a monorail expansion but unless they fabricate the track somewhere, I highly doubt that this would be possible, considering that the company who originally made both rides went out of business a long time ago.

    I'm sooo happy that this happened! Smile Very Happy cheers

    EDIT:

    Here's the article from "The CoasterGuy" showing the trains on a flatbed at Hershey. I don't know when they arrived but I hope they're still out there when I go this Sunday. I wouldn't mind seeing them in their "Magic Mountain" condition before Hershey refurbishes them:

    http://www.thecoasterguy.com/index.php/2011/05/29/six-flags-magic-mountains-metro-monorail-arrives-in-hershey-pa/

    I posted an article a couple of weeks ago (here) that showed the Metro Monorail being removed from Six Flags Magic Mountain after sitting idle for ten years. Each train was hoisted from the guideway, secured onto a flatbed truck, and then hauled away into the night. Nobody really knew where they were going. Some diehard monorail fans were still holding out hope that they were being sent out to be rebuilt and that Six Flags was going to put them back into service one day. Others speculated they were being sold as parts to another company who had the same monorail, and others figured they may have been sold for scrap. Fortunately, the mystery has now been solved.
    After a very long journey, through some very adverse weather, the former Metro Monorail has arrived safe and sound at its new home at Hersheypark, in Hershey, Pennsylvania:




    Hersheypark has an identical, or at least very similar, monorail built in 1969 by the same manufacturer, Universal Mobility. Since that company went out of business long ago, I suspect that parts are few and far between. And when it comes to adding a new train, forget about it. Unless, of course, you can find some used ones that can be picked up dirt cheap. That's where Six Flags Magic Mountain comes in.

    Hersheypark sent a team out to California last year to see what Magic Mountain had. After some negotiating, they struck a deal with Six Flags to take almost everything. For under $100,000, they got all three trains, all the spare parts, the fiberglass molds, the roller storage tracks, the small work car, and one section of track - the rotary switch. That price also included shipping, which ended up being more than they paid for everything else. The rotary switch will actually stay in place until Magic Mountain removes the rest of the guideway, but there is no ETA on that yet. Hersheypark had wanted to buy the entire guideway as well, but a cost analysis pegged that at around $1M by the time they cut it all out and shipped it back east. They figure it will be cheaper to simply build their own.

    Hersheypark's monorail only has two stations, but one of them is no longer used. The second station was a stop at their chocolate factory for the tours, but they started using a simulated tour in 1973 and the monorail station was no longer needed. Today, their monorail is purely used as a ride, taking guests on a loop through the park and returning to the exact same place they started. Over the next couple of years, two of the former Six Flags trains will be completely refurbished and put into regular use. I'm guessing the third train will be used for parts. Hersheypark has been contemplating expanding their monorail and using it to move guests around the park, but there are no solid plans as of yet. I'm sure once they double their capacity with four working trains, they may take a more serious look at expanding their system.

    As sad as it may be, I hope this information once and for all puts to rest the speculation of the monorail ever returning to Six Flags Magic Mountain. Now then, what can Six Flags Magic Mountain install to help people get around the park easier...


    Last edited by HPCrazy on Mon May 30, 2011 1:50 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Ccron10 on Mon May 30, 2011 1:44 pm

    ^^I'm suprised I didn't come across it last week.
    Here's something interesting:
    Hersheypark sent a team out to California last year to see what Magic Mountain had. After some negotiating, they struck a deal with Six Flags to take almost everything. For under $100,000, they got all three trains, all the spare parts, the fiberglass molds, the roller storage tracks, the small work car, and one section of track - the rotary switch. That price also included shipping, which ended up being more than they paid for everything else. The rotary switch will actually stay in place until Magic Mountain removes the rest of the guideway, but there is no ETA on that yet. Hersheypark had wanted to buy the entire guideway as well, but a cost analysis pegged that at around $1M by the time they cut it all out and shipped it back east. They figure it will be cheaper to simply build their own.


    Last edited by Ccron10 on Mon May 30, 2011 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  HPCrazy on Mon May 30, 2011 1:49 pm

    ^ Just edited my post just as you posted - lol. Seems that a lot of things that I've been wanting to see happen at Hershey have finally been made reality this year...Sidewinder's new train and now the purchase of Magic Mountain's old monorail trains.

    Now only if they would better enhance their retail dept, that would be even better! Wink

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  HPfangirl4life on Mon May 30, 2011 8:28 pm

    This is exciting! I don't know how or if they could expand the actual ride, but I can definitely say the increase in trains will cut down the line that forms on busy days. I've seen it heading up through Music Box Way before.

    Matt: as to an improved retail division l, I could not agree more! I know first hand how messed up it is. However, with that deep insider knowledge comes the fact that those in charge think it is perfect how it is currently. So don't be looking for it to change anytime soon.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  HPCrazy on Mon May 30, 2011 10:23 pm

    Chris and I were just talking and we're wondering if the Ride Institute of Technology might also be playing a part with this. Think about it, they mention about "trains" in their studies, so there could be a very good possibility that this could also play a part along with Attraction 2012. Just something to think about.

    But then again, these extra trains need to go through serious refurbs before even being installed for guest use. Just an idea though.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  CoasterBGW on Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:08 pm

    It will be pretty difficult to find footer markings for a monorail expansion given the spacing between footers.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  gb980109 on Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:21 pm

    I don't think it would be too hard. They're about 40 feet apart and in a fairly straight line, with wide arcs for the turns.


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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  CoasterBGW on Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:01 pm

    I just measured a few in Google Earth and they are more like 60-75 ft apart...
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Ccron10 on Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:14 pm

    Here's an idea. Could RIT be the site to deal with Attraction 2012 while the La Marcus Bros. site be for the possible Monorail expansion?
    As far as the feasibilty of the Monorail track being created to expand it, Intamin seems to have some of it's monorail models run on a similar track style. I found somewhere that theirs usually runs for around $6.7 million a mile, so it doesn't seem too expensive to pull off. I find it cool how almost 10 years ago we would've thought that it would be impossible to pull off and now it seems more possible than ever before.

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Magnum PA on Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:20 pm

    Ccron10 wrote:Here's an idea. Could RIT be the site to deal with Attraction 2012 while the La Marcus Bros. site be for the possible Monorail expansion?

    I think everyone is looking way too far into the monorail train purchase.

    All anyone knows is that the park purchased SFMM's monorail trains for a dirt-cheap price.

    Could that mean that they want to expand their current monorail? I suppose it's a possibility.

    But that is also what a park would do to buy spare parts that are hard to come by for a cheap price.

    Expanding the monorail, especially a monorail that was rumored to be removed not long ago, would be a surprise to me.

    Along with the removal rumors, there was talk of cutting out the old factory portion. Any expansion would likely involve removing that wasted portion, and expanded into another area of the park.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  gb980109 on Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:49 pm

    CoasterBGW wrote:I just measured a few in Google Earth and they are more like 60-75 ft apart...
    I was typing on my phone...meant to say 40 feet in distance to each other. Though there are places where they're closer to each other. Either way, I think given we're looking at mostly straight lines and angles based off that, it still should be fairly easy to recognize.

    Magnum PA wrote:I think everyone is looking way too far into the monorail train purchase.

    All anyone knows is that the park purchased SFMM's monorail trains for a dirt-cheap price.

    But that is also what a park would do to buy spare parts that are hard to come by for a cheap price.
    They bought 3 trains to use as spare parts for 2 trains? Seems completely unnecessary to buy all that when they've been able to use parts from the third train for years and years. And while yes, parks certainly do buy trains to use as parts, buying three trains for that purpose is completely unnecessary.

    Magnum PA wrote:Expanding the monorail, especially a monorail that was rumored to be removed not long ago, would be a surprise to me.

    Along with the removal rumors, there was talk of cutting out the old factory portion. Any expansion would likely involve removing that wasted portion, and expanded into another area of the park.
    Those rumors about the Monorail being removed were quickly proven to be untrue. I've always heard that the park was doing what it could to avoid shutting down the Monorail, and even expand the Monorail.

    Getting rid of the parking lot section of the Monorail would easily be for the best.


    Last edited by gb980109 on Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  warfelg on Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:56 pm

    I think everyone is looking way too far into the monorail train purchase.

    All anyone knows is that the park purchased SFMM's monorail trains for a dirt-cheap price.

    Could that mean that they want to expand their current monorail? I suppose it's a possibility.

    But that is also what a park would do to buy spare parts that are hard to come by for a cheap price.
    I think looking more into it is warranted because HP tried to buy the track as well at the trains. They wouldn't have considered buying the track is they were just going to use the extra cars as parts. The cost of shipping the track would have cost too much, so it has been discussed that the park is going to bring in contractors to look at the existing track and the cost it would take replicate it.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  HPCrazy on Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:35 pm

    My guess would be that they could re-route the track out towards Midway and maybe remove the section that goes outside the park, especially with the Rte 743 re-alignment well underway. It could be rerouted to leave the park, turn and go over ZooAmerica and re-enter the park and somehow make a turn out towards Midway.

    They wouldn't have been interested in all of SFMM's track if they weren't considering on possibly expanding the system. Building a new line out to the north end with a new station would be cheaper because they don't have to invest in new trains. They can just give their two current trains a make-over to fit the new system, as well as refurbish and do the same to two of SFMM's old trains, utilizing the third train for spare parts. Perhaps if they overhaul the system, it probably wouldn't be too much of a headache to get new parts for it.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  gb980109 on Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:59 pm

    HPCrazy wrote:They wouldn't have been interested in all of SFMM's track if they weren't considering on possibly expanding the system. Building a new line out to the north end with a new station would be cheaper because they don't have to invest in new trains. They can just give their two current trains a make-over to fit the new system, as well as refurbish and do the same to two of SFMM's old trains, utilizing the third train for spare parts. Perhaps if they overhaul the system, it probably wouldn't be too much of a headache to get new parts for it.
    I think buying the SFMM trains means they're sticking with the same kind of track they have.

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Magnum PA on Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:34 am

    gb980109 wrote:
    Magnum PA wrote:I think everyone is looking way too far into the monorail train purchase.

    All anyone knows is that the park purchased SFMM's monorail trains for a dirt-cheap price.

    But that is also what a park would do to buy spare parts that are hard to come by for a cheap price.
    They bought 3 trains to use as spare parts for 2 trains? Seems completely unnecessary to buy all that when they've been able to use parts from the third train for years and years. And while yes, parks certainly do buy trains to use as parts, buying three trains for that purpose is completely unnecessary.

    Hersheypark saw an opportunity to buy three monorail trains identical to theirs for pennies on the dollar. They took advantage. I'm just saying that it doesn't mean that they are expanding the monorail. Why can't they stock up on parts? It doesn't seem unnecessary to me, or to anyone else looking to make a prudent investment.

    The only place online where I read that HP was interested in track was this "Coaster Guy" character. So... we all should believe him? What's his source?

    gb980109 wrote:
    Magnum PA wrote:Expanding the monorail, especially a monorail that was rumored to be removed not long ago, would be a surprise to me.

    Along with the removal rumors, there was talk of cutting out the old factory portion. Any expansion would likely involve removing that wasted portion, and expanded into another area of the park.
    Those rumors about the Monorail being removed were quickly proven to be untrue. I've always heard that the park was doing what it could to avoid shutting down the Monorail, and even expand the Monorail.

    Getting rid of the parking lot section of the Monorail would easily be for the best.

    Like I said, they could expand it, but to where? Midway America? Where would they put a station? Where would they run the track? Seems like an awful lot of effort to expand a minimally popular ride.

    Why would they want to transport people? Unless it's being run to the Hotel Hershey, it doesn't make sense. You want people walking the midways, buying things and playing games. Transport them on a monorail and you lose those money-making opportunities. The monorail should strictly be for sight-seeing.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  gb980109 on Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:58 am

    Magnum PA wrote:Like I said, they could expand it, but to where? Midway America? Where would they put a station? Where would they run the track? Seems like an awful lot of effort to expand a minimally popular ride.

    Why would they want to transport people?
    Of course Midway America. I can think of several places. Where the ugly food trucks are by the Ferris Wheel, the Midway Fair Tent, even a catering area like Wildcat Catering (though that's far less likely an option). They could easily run the track over the midways, just like it is in Minetown and Music Box. It's just a single support. And, are you mad? The park had a transport ride, the Sky Ride, when it was half its size it is now. The park needs a transport ride to the Midway and has since the Midway opened. Eve the original purpose of the Monorail was to transport people, from downtown to the old Arena, just like the old Electric Railroad took you from downtown to the carousel on the far side of the baseball diamond, approximately near the drive in entrance of the park. It's silly to think that the park shouldn't have a transport ride.

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    Post  Guest on Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:20 am

    Would you realy want to ride in a wet monorail?
    The most this would do is take soaked people from the boardwalk back to the entrance gate.

    Its bad engough at times with people being on farienheit wet.

    ADMIN EDIT: I went ahead and merged this topic with the Monorail topic.

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  HPCrazy on Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:37 am

    Magnum PA wrote:I think everyone is looking way too far into the monorail train purchase.

    All anyone knows is that the park purchased SFMM's monorail trains for a dirt-cheap price.

    But that is also what a park would do to buy spare parts that are hard to come by for a cheap price.


    Just because Hershey picked up all three of those monorail trains dirt cheap doesn't mean that they're going to let all three of those trains sit there being utilized for parts. I agree that having a transport system would take wear and tear off of people walking out to Midway and back. I know what that's like going back and forth several times throughout the course of a day.

    Magnum PA wrote:Why would they want to transport people? Unless it's being run to the Hotel Hershey, it doesn't make sense. You want people walking the midways, buying things and playing games. Transport them on a monorail and you lose those money-making opportunities. The monorail should strictly be for sight-seeing.

    Hmmm, you seem to forget about all the Disney parks that have a railroad around the perimeter with multiple stations, as well as several of the Six Flags and Cedar Fair parks that have railroads with multiple stations. Are they taking away business from shops and food stands along the midways?

    I think a majority of us here would agree that it's a great idea and with this purchase, it will be a matter of time until it's done.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  gb980109 on Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:27 am

    Wizzard33 wrote:Would you realy want to ride in a wet monorail?
    The most this would do is take soaked people from the boardwalk back to the entrance gate.

    Its bad engough at times with people being on farienheit wet.

    Considering that guests would have to ride the Monorail in regular clothes and not a bathing suit, I would see this being less of a problem. And Fahrenheit seats being wet is more from the misters in line (typically faulty ones that shoot out a stream rather than a mist) than people coming from the Boardwalk.

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  warfelg on Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:50 am

    I can tell you I'm 90% sure the monorail is either expanding or being re-routed to run more through the park than outside. I work in a township office in south-central Pa, and we have one of the most advanced historical preservation set of codes in all of Pa.

    Lately, because of all the changes to HP, the park and Derry Township (the township that runs the park) have been seeking advice from us on the best practices for changing historical structures and areas. Nothing specific has been said but this much has been gathered through their clues:

    -The park is quickly loosing space and wants to grow.
    -They want HP to be exempt from the height barrier in general so future projects can be designed without having to file for a variance (in that case information has to be made public)
    -They want to fundamentally alter historical parts of the park

    I think all of this adds up to a larger park, with more tall rides (drop towers and other coasters), and changes to the monorail and the Comet. The Comet is only being altered for attraction 2012 to fit, but the monorail is going to be expanded to serve the whole park now and in the future. There is a vocal part of Derry Township that does not want to see the monorail altered no matter what, but the park believes it is in the long term benefit to 'revisit a people moving system in the park' (that's how it's been worded).

    Anyways, I know that is long winded but in the end Hershey is doing everything it can to compete with the likes of Six Flags and Ceder Point and other like parks yet keep the charm that makes Hersheypark what it is today.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Ccron10 on Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:03 pm

    When I was there on Thursday they must've moved the trains because they wern't in the parking lot.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Ccron10 on Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:15 pm

    Magnum PA wrote:
    Like I said, they could expand it, but to where? Midway America? Where would they put a station? Where would they run the track? Seems like an awful lot of effort to expand a minimally popular ride.

    Why would they want to transport people? Unless it's being run to the Hotel Hershey, it doesn't make sense. You want people walking the midways, buying things and playing games. Transport them on a monorail and you lose those money-making opportunities. The monorail should strictly be for sight-seeing.
    There's room next to the Midway Tent and plus it wouldn't really take up much room at all if they design it correctly.
    Also, the Monorail is more popular than you think. On a moderately busy day you could sometimes see the line going pretty far down the entrance ramp.

    As for why to transport people, I would think it would kind of help the midway stands instead of hurt them. The ones in the back of the park would end up getting more business while the ones in the front probably won't be affected as much.
    Keep in mind that the park cares about it's guests and in some cases it comes down to guest happiness instead of profit. Look at Sidewinder for example. They added the new trains probably not to try to bring in a profit, but probably because they got a lot of feedback from their guests about it being a brutal ride. They could've left the ride the way it is or tear it down to put something else in. Wink

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Magnum PA on Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:56 pm

    gb980109 wrote:
    Magnum PA wrote:Like I said, they could expand it, but to where? Midway America? Where would they put a station? Where would they run the track? Seems like an awful lot of effort to expand a minimally popular ride.

    Why would they want to transport people?
    Of course Midway America. I can think of several places. Where the ugly food trucks are by the Ferris Wheel, the Midway Fair Tent, even a catering area like Wildcat Catering (though that's far less likely an option). They could easily run the track over the midways, just like it is in Minetown and Music Box. It's just a single support.


    Remove the food stands? I guess they could, as they've already stripped Midway America of most of its charm. But I would be surprised if they just removed food outlets. Relocate them, maybe. If a station was to go there, where would the track run? Through Lightning Racer?

    The Midway Fair Tent could be a location, but then they would have to run the track behind the Wildcat and Lightning Racer. Not very scenic. I doubt that.

    There is no way they are removing a catering area for anything. They wouldn't even remove the Creekside catering area for the new roller coaster.

    If the track was expanded to Midway America, how would it run outbound? Behind Storm Runner, Trailblazer and Lightning Racer? No. Right through Roller Soaker? No. Over top of the wave pool? No.

    How would it return to the station? Behind Fahrenheit and Wildcat? No. Right over top of the midway? I guess they could, but that would be hideous. It just doesn't seem practical to me to expand the monorail to Midway America. There is no easy way to do it, that's for sure.

    gb980109 wrote: And, are you mad? The park had a transport ride, the Sky Ride, when it was half its size it is now. The park needs a transport ride to the Midway and has since the Midway opened. Eve the original purpose of the Monorail was to transport people, from downtown to the old Arena, just like the old Electric Railroad took you from downtown to the carousel on the far side of the baseball diamond, approximately near the drive in entrance of the park. It's silly to think that the park shouldn't have a transport ride.

    By "mad" you mean crazy, correct? No, I'm not - at least the last time I checked...

    You make the error of comparing different eras in the amusement park industry. The old train was to actually bring people into the park (free admission back then).

    The sky ride was built in the early 70's, correct? Removed in the late 80's. Part of the reason it was removed was the price of parts. But parts are still available, as the ride operates in another location today.

    They also removed it partial because they decided it wasn't necessary anymore. Other parks have done the same thing. Transport rides just aren't really built anymore.

    The logic is simple. Why take people off of the midways? That's where the money is made. That's where parks want people to be. Once a guest is in the park, you want them to spend more money wherever they can.

    Amusement parks are businesses first and foremost. They operate to make a profit, and almost every decision made is based on how profitable it will be. Building a multi-million dollar extension to a non-money making monorail to move people from one side of the park to the other, removing them from money-making midways makes no financial sense at all.

    You really think Hersheypark cares if people have to walk to Midway America?

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Mr Talley on Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:57 pm

    warfelg wrote:I can tell you I'm 90% sure the monorail is either expanding or being re-routed to run more through the park than outside. I work in a township office in south-central Pa, and we have one of the most advanced historical preservation set of codes in all of Pa.

    Lately, because of all the changes to HP, the park and Derry Township (the township that runs the park) have been seeking advice from us on the best practices for changing historical structures and areas. Nothing specific has been said but this much has been gathered through their clues:

    -The park is quickly loosing space and wants to grow.
    -They want HP to be exempt from the height barrier in general so future projects can be designed without having to file for a variance (in that case information has to be made public)
    -They want to fundamentally alter historical parts of the park

    I think all of this adds up to a larger park, with more tall rides (drop towers and other coasters), and changes to the monorail and the Comet. The Comet is only being altered for attraction 2012 to fit, but the monorail is going to be expanded to serve the whole park now and in the future. There is a vocal part of Derry Township that does not want to see the monorail altered no matter what, but the park believes it is in the long term benefit to 'revisit a people moving system in the park' (that's how it's been worded).

    Anyways, I know that is long winded but in the end Hershey is doing everything it can to compete with the likes of Six Flags and Ceder Point and other like parks yet keep the charm that makes Hersheypark what it is today.

    Man, i really hope these things happen. A drop tower is well overdue. The park has to be able to expand in order to fit not only taller rides, but longer roller coasters as well. Maybe they could even throw a Strata Coaster in to really compete with Cedar Point and Six Flags.

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    Monorail Expansion Discussion

    Post  Magnum PA on Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:23 pm

    You posted one of the most thoughtful, well written posts I've seen on this site. I posted something relevant to this on TPR, about Hersheypark's future. I'll see if I can find it, and transpose it here.

    warfelg wrote:

    -The park is quickly loosing space and wants to grow.
    -They want HP to be exempt from the height barrier in general so future projects can be designed without having to file for a variance (in that case information has to be made public)
    -They want to fundamentally alter historical parts of the park.

    They shot themselves in the foot regarding space. That's the whole waterpark argument, that has been discussed here.

    The height restriction is irrelevant now, as the airport is gone. It should not exist. I hope they can change that.

    The Arena seems to be a thorn in their side. They want it gone, but it will be a publicity nightmare if/when they pull the trigger.

    warfelg wrote:I think all of this adds up to a larger park, with more tall rides (drop towers and other coasters), and changes to the monorail and the Comet. The Comet is only being altered for attraction 2012 to fit, but the monorail is going to be expanded to serve the whole park now and in the future. There is a vocal part of Derry Township that does not want to see the monorail altered no matter what, but the park believes it is in the long term benefit to 'revisit a people moving system in the park' (that's how it's been worded).

    Anyways, I know that is long winded but in the end Hershey is doing everything it can to compete with the likes of Six Flags and Ceder Point and other like parks yet keep the charm that makes Hersheypark what it is today.

    Hershey wants a new park entrance. Ideally, it will be where the Arena, Claw, and employee entrance is now. Could a monorail change be involved with that? Certainly. Time will tell.

    Either way, it's all in the very early planning/exploratory stages at this point. Nothing is immanent, which is why I think it is premature read too much into this monorail train purchase.

    I can see some benefits of dropping people off at another end of the park, but the price has to be right for Hershey to pull the trigger on anything. Guest satisfaction is important, no doubt. But they won't lose money over it. The decision has to make financial sense too.


    Last edited by Magnum PA on Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Monorail Expansion Discussion

    Post  Magnum PA on Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:37 pm

    From TPR back in December. If all of this monorail stuff needs to be moved to another thread, go ahead and do it.

    Magnum PA wrote:I think that HE&R knows they need to expand the park in the not too distant future, and I'm sure many different options have been drawn up. It probably should have been done years ago, but they were afraid to pull the trigger due to the cost. Had they done it back then, we wouldn't be stuck with the Boardwalk where it is.

    The park can't expand toward the old golf cousrse. Imagine walking from there to Lightning Racer. Hersheypark is already very "skinny". Any expansion should be to "widen" it. I think ideally, the easiest way to expand would be to demolish Hersheypark Arena, move the employee parking, and eventually demolish Hersheypark Stadium. Not that I'm a proponent of removing these older buildings, but logistically, it makes the most sense.

    There has been talk for some time about a new entance to the park going in that general area, and it would make sense, considering it is right smack in the middle of the park. However, that would most likely mean the end of Tudor Square, Carrousel Circle and Rhineland - the most charming areas of Hersheypark. Can you imagine the Carrousel in a different part of the park? They'd have to move it to the new entrance, right?

    The new entrance would be better equipped to handle the large crowds Hershey attracts. Guests would no longer have to chug up and down the hills at the park's current entrance. It would allow for waterpark goers to head directly to the left. Fahrenheit would now be at the front of the park.

    Look at the major logistical changes that have taken place along these lines over the years:

    - Giant Center is built, parking lots are greatly expanded.
    - Golf course closes down.
    - Museum moves to downtown Hershey.
    - Waterpark takes over Midway America.

    Add them all together, and you can kinda' see where they're headed.

    I was inside the Arena not too long ago, maybe a little over a year. The place (pehaps purposefully?) is really falling into disrepair. The ceiling is falling apart and leaking, and it looked like it had been that way for a while. It's used for storage by the park. Two, maybe three people were ice skating. There is so much character in that place, but it's just a hollow shell of it's former self. I thought there was some sort of government protection or landmark status. But if it continues to fall into disrepair and is deemed unsafe, it will go away. I think HE&R wants it to go away. Most of the executives are outsiders anyway. They probably don't care about the building as much as the locals do. I'm sure it's on the chopping block, and it will probably be sooner than later. It will be sad to see it go. But let's face it, it's already been replaced by the Giant Center.

    If Hersheypark Stadium eventually comes down (probably for additional parking), I can totally see a new stadium/outside concert venue being built in the old golf course area, near Giant Center. Then you would have the park on one side of the complex and the sports/music on the other.

    As far as inside the park goes, now that Boardwalk is there, they need to continue to expand it. If there was a realistic way to move Lightning Racer, I'm sure they would do it, and I would be all for it. Look for Wild Mouse to move for sure in the next few years. With growing attendance from the waterpark and from Attraction 2012, I'm sure the hope is to generate enough revenue to bring the new entrance plans to fruition, within the next 5 years.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  HPCrazy on Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:59 pm

    You also forgot to mention that moving the main entrance to the Claw area and away from Chocolate World isn't helping the situation any. Who feels like walking across the parking lot from Chocolate World to a new park entrance? Not unless they develop that whole parking lot, remove the arena and relocate the stadium to the other end of the complex. Then a new entrance would be a better solution.

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Magnum PA on Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:13 pm

    HPCrazy wrote:You also forgot to mention that moving the main entrance to the Claw area and away from Chocolate World isn't helping the situation any. Who feels like walking across the parking lot from Chocolate World to a new park entrance? Not unless they develop that whole parking lot, remove the arena and relocate the stadium to the other end of the complex. Then a new entrance would be a better solution.

    Hersheypark only cares about Chocolate World to the extent that the general public associates it with Hersheypark. Do they really care if Chocolate World is successful? Not as much as you think.

    They are two different companies, and two that don't exactly get along. Chocolate World is owned and operated by The Hershey Company (chocolate), which is publicly held, with the majority of the shares being owned by the Hershey Trust. Hersheypark is owned by HE&R, a privately held company, owned 100% by the Hershey Trust.

    Ultimately, it all comes back to the Hershey Trust, but the Hershey Company and Hershey Entertainment & Resorts are two completely separate and distinct companies.

    Think of it as two kids forced to play in the same sandbox.

    I don't think proximity to Chocolate World would come into play at all when they decide to move the entrance. Chocolate World can be a tram stop.

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Ccron10 on Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:53 pm

    Hate to burst your bubble, but I really don't think the Arena is going anywhere anytime soon and here's why:
    - The Arena is a landmark I guess, but I'm not 100% sure if it's protected.
    -Many departments consider it home. Rides, park operations, the warehouse, and I think even entertainment. There would be so many departments to move that it would be a hassle.
    -The parking lot between the Service Center and Arena are for employees andthey would need a new parking lot for them.

    Case and point, just because it isn't being used for any sporting events anymore doesn't mean it would be easy to just tear down and do away with it.
    I do have to say though that the interior is very outdated and it kind of feels like stepping back in time when you go inside of it.

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Magnum PA on Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:13 pm

    Ccron10 wrote: Hate to burst your bubble, but I really don't think the Arena is going anywhere anytime soon and here's why:
    - The Arena is a landmark I guess, but I'm not 100% sure if it's protected.
    -Many departments consider it home. Rides, park operations, the warehouse, and I think even entertainment. There would be so many departments to move that it would be a hassle.
    -The parking lot between the Service Center and Arena are for employees andthey would need a new parking lot for them.

    No bubble bursting... I'm not saying I want to see the Arena go. I'm saying that it's probably going to happen soon. Did you even read what I posted above?

    So, you're saying that because some departments use some of the outer appendages of the arena as office space, the building can't be torn down? New offices can't be built?

    If you would have read what I said above, I said that the parking spaces can be recovered on the opposite side of the service center, or even where the stadium sits now, if they decide to remove it. That lot between the arena and service center mostly sits half empty anyway. Employees park mostly next to Wildcat and behind the service center anyway.

    There is a ton of parking on the complex. Losing a small lot like that one is not a concern.

    Ccron10 wrote:Case and point, just because it isn't being used for any sporting events anymore doesn't mean it would be easy to just tear down and do away with it.
    I do have to say though that the interior is very outdated and it kind of feels like stepping back in time when you go inside of it.

    Let me preface this by saying that it would be sad to see such an iconic building like Hersheypark Arena go. I have a number of memories there. Historical moments have happened there.

    But...

    It's a big, empty, pointless building now. It takes up a huge footprint that could be used for other purposes. HE&R built the Giant Center and moved the museum to downtown Hershey. They are letting the Arena fall into disrepair. It's going away. It serves little purpose now, and the purpose it serves now can be replaced easily. It's not part of HE&R's future plans. In fact, it's in the way.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  FlyersFan on Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:47 pm

    The one thing I have always wondered is why wouldn't Hershey look into a parking garage like at Universal Orlando. I'm not saying just like that but if they go vertical with their parking then a lot of these problems are solved. If the parking garage was out near where the Giant Center parking lot is you would instantly make a ton of space available.

    Another option would be tear the stadium down and build a new one out near the Giant Center and still add a parking garage. Then you could leave the arena and work around it or demolish it and have even more space.

    I know some of you will argue that a parking garage would cause traffic problems and your right to an extent. I have left Universal Orlando at closing time after a special event and didn't have much of a problem at all. If laid out properly it could really help the park with their space issue.

    Now as for the monorail expansion, it's only a matter of time. They need something to move people through the park. A monorail expansion is perfect if you ask me. I was at the park last week in the 95 degree weather and it wasn't fun walking to the waterpark then back out to the parking lot for lunch and then back into the waterpark. Way too far of a walk and I'm in very good shape.

    On a side note about the arena. I really don't want to see it go. I played hockey in that building growing up and really would miss the sentimental value of it. Of course if they put something cool there then I think I could get over the loss.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  EastSideSweeper on Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:01 pm

    With the arena, I was thinking what most people do today as "why is this still here?" Then when I was heading through it today I noticed various reasons why aside from being offices. We didn't even take our regular route of walking across where the ice would be because there was and event going on inside for Music In The Parks. So we went down this hall there where locker rooms still used by The Hershey Jr. Bears and Lebanon Valley College (the wall outside it was even painted there colors). And it just made me realize that it still is used, and will be used for a very long time until its condition is doomed beyond repair. So for now at least it will probably be there for years to come.


    With the SFMM trains I noticed them behind the old Lumber Yard yesterday. So I just went back out today and got some pics, but they aren't that great quality(phone camera).




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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  HPCrazy on Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:08 pm

    Where is the Lumber Yard located? I thought when the park removed Canyon River Rapids that they moved the boats out there for the time being until they were sold.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  gb980109 on Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:59 pm

    Magnum PA wrote:They are letting the Arena fall into disrepair. It's going away. It serves little purpose now, and the purpose it serves now can be replaced easily. It's not part of HE&R's future plans. In fact, it's in the way.
    They repaired the roof and installed new ice machinery in the Arena. It's not going away.

    Magnum PA wrote:Remove the food stands? I guess they could, as they've already stripped Midway America of most of its charm. But I would be surprised if they just removed food outlets. Relocate them, maybe. If a station was to go there, where would the track run? Through Lightning Racer?

    The Midway Fair Tent could be a location, but then they would have to run the track behind the Wildcat and Lightning Racer. Not very scenic. I doubt that.

    There is no way they are removing a catering area for anything. They wouldn't even remove the Creekside catering area for the new roller coaster.

    If the track was expanded to Midway America, how would it run outbound? Behind Storm Runner, Trailblazer and Lightning Racer? No. Right through Roller Soaker? No. Over top of the wave pool? No.

    How would it return to the station? Behind Fahrenheit and Wildcat? No. Right over top of the midway? I guess they could, but that would be hideous. It just doesn't seem practical to me to expand the monorail to Midway America. There is no easy way to do it, that's for sure.
    You really have no idea what you're talking about. At all. You're assuming that Creekside Catering still exists, which it doesn't. Just because the pavilion is there doesn't mean it's going to be used as a catering area. Secondly, Kissing Tower Catering was removed in favor of Great Bear's station. Thirdly, I said that removing a catering area is far less likely, though still an option.

    The food stands in the area near Ferris Wheel need to go. They can just as easily reorganize them where the fair tent is in a much better way than it is now, while accommodating a Monorail station. As it stands now the Monorail runs over the midways in Minetown and Music Box, if you haven't noticed.


    Magnum PA wrote:By "mad" you mean crazy, correct? No, I'm not - at least the last time I checked...

    You make the error of comparing different eras in the amusement park industry. The old train was to actually bring people into the park (free admission back then).

    The sky ride was built in the early 70's, correct? Removed in the late 80's. Part of the reason it was removed was the price of parts. But parts are still available, as the ride operates in another location today.

    They also removed it partial because they decided it wasn't necessary anymore. Other parks have done the same thing. Transport rides just aren't really built anymore.
    Last I checked, parks like Cedar Point and Six Flags still have sky rides while parks like Disney parks have monorails. You're argument that other parks think having transport rides are unnecessary holds no weight.

    The Sky Ride existed from 1972-1993. It was removed because the park couldn't afford to maintain the ride. Had it not left then, it would have left for Great Bear.

    The original Electric Railroad was simply to bring people from one end of the park, where the factory is, to the other end where they built the carousel. It was built for the purpose of transporting people, not to bring them into the park. Because they were already in the park.

    Magnum PA wrote:You really think Hersheypark cares if people have to walk to Midway America?
    Yes, Hersheypark cares. You're a fool if you think otherwise.


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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  ChiefRedskin89 on Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:12 am

    Have we not already established that the Arena is used in this argument before? Lebanon Valley uses it for hockey games, Shippensburg uses it for hockey games, Bears use it for practice, Music in the Park is held there, public skating, and many high school sports compititions that arn't big enough for the Giant Center are there. Apart from these it also has the historical aspect, 18 Calder Cup games, original home for the most sucessful AHL team, and it also was where Wilt scored the most points by a single player in an NBA game. I don't think the Arena is going anywhere.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Ccron10 on Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:30 am

    ChiefRedskin89 wrote:Have we not already established that the Arena is used in this argument before? Lebanon Valley uses it for hockey games, Shippensburg uses it for hockey games, Bears use it for practice, Music in the Park is held there, public skating, and many high school sports compititions that arn't big enough for the Giant Center are there. Apart from these it also has the historical aspect, 18 Calder Cup games, original home for the most sucessful AHL team, and it also was where Wilt scored the most points by a single player in an NBA game. I don't think the Arena is going anywhere.
    I agree. I think it's best to stop disputing if the Arena is going anywhere and if it's being used. Any posts doing so after this will be edited or removed.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  ChiefRedskin89 on Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:09 pm

    Back to the monorail. First of all does anyone know how much the Midway tent is even used? It doesn't seem to have much use so mabye a removal could make way for the monorail. The other place I was thinking could mabye be Wildcat's queue. It could deffenatly be moved and redone because now it is way to spread out and meandoring. Moving the queue and posibly shortening it due to popularity would open up a spot for the station. If you look at the arial view it could come in between Wildcat and the Midway tent and exit across the midway either left or right.

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  warfelg on Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:47 pm

    In regards to everything dealing with the area, don't expect it to go away anytime soon...while not federally protected yet it's county and state registered as a historic place. But the way it was registered it can be internally altered, but the facade cannot be altered. Same goes for the museum and the stadium, so those three structures aren't going anywhere. All parts of the reason the acquiring the golf course was huge for HE&R

    My coworkers and I were talking about this issue and if the main entrance were to be relocated, I would put money on it being through the arena. The monorail station at the area then could play a big part in moving people to the extremes of the park quickly. Also the arena would be centrally located.

    Onto the part of the monorail and where it could be located, I think with the boardwalk going in we see just how much HP cares for the Midway, which I think is not at all. Other than the coasters and the Ferris wheel there is no attachment to the rides in that area. I could see some of them being taken out, or possibly moves to an expansion area to make room for the monorail. It could also be routed through the middle of stormrunner and trailblazer up to near the greatbear, down to the new expansion, behind the comet though founders circle back up to the main station near the arena. By far the easiest route for the monorail expansion.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  EastSideSweeper on Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:49 pm

    HPCrazy wrote:Where is the Lumber Yard located? I thought when the park removed Canyon River Rapids that they moved the boats out there for the time being until they were sold.

    Its behind the Rite Aid across from the Days Inn on Chocolate Ave. and Yes pieces of the old Rapids are there.

    Edit: Also if the expand the Monorail to Midway a station should go where the Midway Tent is now. There is over enough room there for a station and a few food stands, or restaurants(I think they need an indoor one in the back of the park because the only one is Minetown currently.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  gb980109 on Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:07 pm

    warfelg wrote:My coworkers and I were talking about this issue and if the main entrance were to be relocated, I would put money on it being through the arena. The monorail station at the area then could play a big part in moving people to the extremes of the park quickly. Also the arena would be centrally located.
    I don't see the Arena really being capable of handling that. As the building is currently designed, I don't know how it could be appropriately used for that purpose. But, this is certainly an intriguing idea.

    I think the Midway Fair Tent would be best saved for a small footprint roller coaster like a Zac Spin. If you reorganize that area, including removing the slides, that leaves enough room between the coaster and some food stands. With that area being right across from the Boardwalk, I just don't see an indoor restaurant going in there. I could totally see the Monorail track making its way through the Boardwalk midway into the area near Ferris Wheel where there's a station.

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Magnum PA on Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:39 pm

    Ccron10 wrote:I think it's best to stop disputing if the Arena is going anywhere and if it's being used. Any posts doing so after this will be edited or removed.

    Why?

    The existance of the Arena is completely relevant to the topic at hand, and to Hersheypark's future expansion plans. Trying to control what people can and cannot talk about is a good way to lose participants.

    I'm going to ignore gb980109's Arena remarks in an effort to not start an argument.

    I will say this - you are still confusing eras. Yes, the big parks all have skyrides and trains with multiple stops, but what you're still neglecting is the fact that those rides were all built in the 70's or earlier. Thinking back on all of the parks I've been too, I can't remember any that has a new sky ride or a new train, or even a new monorail. On the contrary, many parks that once had monorails and skyrides have gotten rid of them.

    Parks don't build these people movers anymore because 1) they already have one, or 2) they've realized that money is made on the midways, and that's where they want their guests spending their time. It's common business sense to me. I don't understand why everyone here seems to have so much trouble with that concept.

    Another thing to consider is what most park guests want to do on these rides? Do they really want to get off at the next station? Or would they rather stay on for the full ride and get off where they got on? To me it seems the majority wants to stay on for the whole ride.

    warfelg wrote: In regards to everything dealing with the area, don't expect it to go away anytime soon...while not federally protected yet it's county and state registered as a historic place. But the way it was registered it can be internally altered, but the facade cannot be altered. Same goes for the museum and the stadium, so those three structures aren't going anywhere. All parts of the reason the acquiring the golf course was huge for HE&R.

    My coworkers and I were talking about this issue and if the main entrance were to be relocated, I would put money on it being through the arena.

    That's interesting to hear. There were rumors of an indoor roller coaster a few years back, to be built inside the arena. That would go right along with the internal alteration aspect. In that sense, it could be incorporated into a new park entrance as an indoor ride. I believe that would be the best option for it.

    warfelg wrote: The monorail station at the area then could play a big part in moving people to the extremes of the park quickly. Also the arena would be centrally located.

    Onto the part of the monorail and where it could be located, I think with the boardwalk going in we see just how much HP cares for the Midway, which I think is not at all. Other than the coasters and the Ferris wheel there is no attachment to the rides in that area. I could see some of them being taken out, or possibly moves to an expansion area to make room for the monorail.

    I know for a fact that the decision makers at HE&R are looking at a new park entrance in the Arena/Claw area. They've been looking at it for years. It is the center point of the park. Upon entering (likely a new Founder's Circle) you can go right toward Comet Hollow and old Hersheypark, straight toward Minetown, or left to Pioneer Frontier, the Boardwalk, and Midway America. It just makes sense, and eliminates the excess walking that everyone here seems to be concerned with.

    I just don't see a park expansion to the golf course. It's just way too far out there, and the park would have to cross Park Blvd. I don't know if there is an effective wat to do that unless that road is somehow moved.

    The golf course purchase enables HE&R to expand the entertainment complex, perhaps a new concert venue. Maybe a monorail expansion would be involved with moving guests to the park from the entertainment portion of the complex. Any park expansion I think would be into parking lots.

    warfelg wrote: It could also be routed through the middle of stormrunner and trailblazer up to near the greatbear, down to the new expansion, behind the comet though founders circle back up to the main station near the arena. By far the easiest route for the monorail expansion.

    I suppose it could, but that would be awfully tight, and an awful lot of monorail track ($) to run the entire perimeter of the park. If the entrance is finally moved to the Arena area, I don't see any need for monorail stops inside the park.



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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Magnum PA on Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:42 pm

    gb980109 wrote:
    I think the Midway Fair Tent would be best saved for a small footprint roller coaster like a Zac Spin. If you reorganize that area, including removing the slides, that leaves enough room between the coaster and some food stands. With that area being right across from the Boardwalk, I just don't see an indoor restaurant going in there. I could totally see the Monorail track making its way through the Boardwalk midway into the area near Ferris Wheel where there's a station.

    I've always wondered why the tent even existed. I always thought it was a waste of space. I think, if the tent does go at some point, that that will be the new home of Wild Mouse. That would allow the waterpark to be expanded into where Wild Mouse currently sits.

    I think that whole Pioneer Frontier midway is really well-laid out. A monorail track would be an eye-sore there.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  gb980109 on Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:43 am

    Magnum PA wrote:On the contrary, many parks that once had monorails and skyrides have gotten rid of them.

    Parks don't build these people movers anymore because 1) they already have one, or 2) they've realized that money is made on the midways, and that's where they want their guests spending their time. It's common business sense to me. I don't understand why everyone here seems to have so much trouble with that concept.

    Another thing to consider is what most park guests want to do on these rides? Do they really want to get off at the next station? Or would they rather stay on for the full ride and get off where they got on? To me it seems the majority wants to stay on for the whole ride.
    Because parks couldn't afford the maintenance cost. Not because they didn't want them as people movers. People at Hersheypark often complain about there not being a people mover. Hersheypark has been looking into a people mover to Midway America ever since the expansion happened out there. I know there have been several considerations, including having the Dry Gulch Railroad go out that way.

    Secondly, I wouldn't recommend you lecturing anyone on "common business sense."
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  ChiefRedskin89 on Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:32 am

    Ok lets think about "Common Business Sence". Who brings in more money, a family that comes once walks the midways buys some food there but leaves four hours early ,eats dinner on the way home, and doesn't come back. OR someone who will buy mercendise because they loved the place so much and come back year after year. Face it America is rediculously out of shape and people don't want to walk that far. After walking from front of the park to back of the park all day I'm tired and I'm an inshape teenager. People like to rest and not be exausted.

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Magnum PA on Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:26 am

    gb980109 wrote: Because parks couldn't afford the maintenance cost. Not because they didn't want them as people movers.

    Parks couldn't afford the maintenance costs? Or the cost of maintaining such a ride wasn't worth keeping it? It's the latter. Ultimately, the parks (including Hersheypark) decided that keeping a people mover wasn't worth the cost of maintaining it. Somewhere in that thought process is the idea that a people mover isn't that important.

    gb980109 wrote: People at Hersheypark often complain about there not being a people mover. Hersheypark has been looking into a people mover to Midway America ever since the expansion happened out there. I know there have been several considerations, including having the Dry Gulch Railroad go out that way.

    I'm sure there is a relative handful of people, out of the millions that visit each year, that complain about having to walk so much. Or they complain about having to walk up and down Hersheypark's hilly terrain. Many are probably fat and out of shape too.

    You guys need to think outside the box a little. If Hersheypark is successful in relocating the park entrance to the area north of the Arena, there is no walking issue, and no need for expanding any of their people mover rides. The train and monorail can stay as is. The Boardwalk would be just a short walk to the left. Comet Hollow would be a short walk to the right. Minetown would be just a short walk straight ahead.

    gb980109 wrote: Secondly, I wouldn't recommend you lecturing anyone on "common business sense."

    You have no idea who I am, or who I've worked for and/or with, or what I do, or what experience I have in the industry. Suffice it to say that I feel qualified to say everything I have said in this forum.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  HPCrazy on Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:49 am

    Magnum PA wrote:I will say this - you are still confusing eras. Yes, the big parks all have skyrides and trains with multiple stops, but what you're still neglecting is the fact that those rides were all built in the 70's or earlier. Thinking back on all of the parks I've been too, I can't remember any that has a new sky ride or a new train, or even a new monorail. On the contrary, many parks that once had monorails and skyrides have gotten rid of them.

    Parks don't build these people movers anymore because 1) they already have one, or 2) they've realized that money is made on the midways, and that's where they want their guests spending their time. It's common business sense to me. I don't understand why everyone here seems to have so much trouble with that concept.

    Another thing to consider is what most park guests want to do on these rides? Do they really want to get off at the next station? Or would they rather stay on for the full ride and get off where they got on? To me it seems the majority wants to stay on for the whole ride.

    I really don't get why you don't understand this. For example, look at the Magic Kingdom at Disney World. It's the most visited theme park around. Having a train around the perimeter with multiple stations doesn't seem to hurt them financially. It doesn't prevent people from being on the midway spending their money on food, gifts and games. In fact, I know alot of people who are happy for it because it saves them time if they're at the back of the park and they want to leave, they can hop on the train and be deposited right at the park exit.

    Cedar Point is another prime example....the last time I was there, I actually had to wait in a line to ride their skyride. Does it affect them money-wise on the midway? No. I've also seen plenty of people spending their money there on food, games and gifts. Will it continue to affect them. No. Does having a train in the back of the park affect this? No. I'm sure there are plenty of people who will agree that both rides really help, especially with a park of that size. If Hershey continues to grow, they will need some kind of people-moving system to get people through the park, because if the park eventually doubles in size, that's more walking, regardless if there are many hills or not.

    If Hershey feels that an expanded monorail is necessary and will help with getting people around the park, they will try to find the best and most feasible way to make it happen. And will it affect their merchandise, food and games sales? No. They had a skyride, did it affect any of this? Probably not. People will still continue to spend their money regardless if there is a shuttle system within the park or not.

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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  Magnum PA on Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:42 pm

    HPCrazy wrote:
    I really don't get why you don't understand this. For example, look at the Magic Kingdom at Disney World. It's the most visited theme park around. Having a train around the perimeter with multiple stations doesn't seem to hurt them financially. It doesn't prevent people from being on the midway spending their money on food, gifts and games. In fact, I know alot of people who are happy for it because it saves them time if they're at the back of the park and they want to leave, they can hop on the train and be deposited right at the park exit.

    I understand the benefits of a people mover in a large park. Even I like the convenience. But I don't get why we're comparing Hersheypark with Disney. There is no comparison. Different clientele. Different park and different situation completely.

    Additionally, Magic Kingdom was built with the train (and its multiple stations) in place. It was part of the original plan. To squeeze a people mover with multiple stations into a park that really doesn't need it (Hersheypark) or have the space for it, would not be a prudent use of capital dollars.

    HPCrazy wrote: Cedar Point is another prime example....the last time I was there, I actually had to wait in a line to ride their skyride. Does it affect them money-wise on the midway? No. I've also seen plenty of people spending their money there on food, games and gifts. Will it continue to affect them. No. Does having a train in the back of the park affect this? No. I'm sure there are plenty of people who will agree that both rides really help, especially with a park of that size. If Hershey continues to grow, they will need some kind of people-moving system to get people through the park, because if the park eventually doubles in size, that's more walking, regardless if there are many hills or not.

    Cedar Point has one of the most impractical sky rides I've seen. It goes from one end of the midway of the other. Those looking to ride it mostly are just looking for a scenic view of the area, not looking to bypass the midway. In fact, it is much quicker to walk the midway than it is to wait in line, ride the sky ride and exit. It's not meant to be a people mover. It's a ride. In fact, if you want to ride anything in the front midway area (Raptor, Blue Streak, Cedar Downs), you have to walk.

    Cedar Point's train ride has one additional stop in the Frontier section. Aside from that, there is no other place to get off. Again, Cedar Point is a completely different animal than Hersheypark.

    Hersheypark will not be doubling in size, ever. Like I mentioned before, any expansion will be into the parking lots on the west side of the park, not to the golf course.

    HPCrazy wrote: If Hershey feels that an expanded monorail is necessary and will help with getting people around the park, they will try to find the best and most feasible way to make it happen. And will it affect their merchandise, food and games sales? No. They had a skyride, did it affect any of this? Probably not. People will still continue to spend their money regardless if there is a shuttle system within the park or not.

    Yes, if Hersheypark feels it is necessary, they will do it. I'm just not sold on them feeling it's necessary. I don't feel it is. Especially if the plan is to finally move the park entrance.

    To maximize sales opportunities in this industry, you want to keep people on the midways as much as possible. Rides and attractions get them to the gate to pay admission. Games, food, and souvenirs keep the parks in business and make them profitable.
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    Re: Hersheypark Buys SFMM's Monorail Trains

    Post  ChiefRedskin89 on Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:50 pm

    You guys need to think outside the box a little. If Hersheypark is successful in relocating the park entrance to the area north of the Arena, there is no walking issue, and no need for expanding any of their people mover rides. The train and monorail can stay as is. The Boardwalk would be just a short walk to the left. Comet Hollow would be a short walk to the right. Minetown would be just a short walk straight ahead.


    Ok that solves one problem but creates more. Rhinland, their main merchendise area would be done. It would probably be the most deserted area of the park. Also what if people want to go from Comet Hollow to Midway or vise versa, thats a hike!

    I'm sure there is a relative handful of people, out of the millions that visit each year, that complain about having to walk so much. Or they complain about having to walk up and down Hersheypark's hilly terrain. Many are probably fat and out of shape too.

    Thats just ignorant. Thats like expecting the costumer to change to you when you have to change for the custumer. Hershey Park is rediculously hilly and in turn needs a people mover MORE then other flat parks. And also how on earth does Disney have Different clientele then HersheyPark?

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